UK

United Kingdom · Compliance, quality and safety · Lead (8-12 years)

Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer

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  • Experience bandLead (8-12 years)
  • Direct reports3-5 reports
  • Reports toISO System Manager
  • UK framework levelUsually a manager, or the deepest specialist in a team

Also advertised as Senior Quality Systems Lead · Compliance Systems Architect · Integrated Management System Lead

Built on 43,079 real UK job descriptions we analysed · grounded in what real qualifications cover

Two short quizzes about you

1From this job to a course

The qualifications matched to this job

GQA Level 5 Diploma in the Practice of Process Safety Management GQA Qualifications Limited · Level 5 · covers 1 of 10 standards
GQA PAA\VQ-SET Level 3 Diploma for a Bulk Storage Operator (Technician) GQA Qualifications Limited · Level 3 · covers 1 of 10 standards
GQA PAA\VQ-SET Level 3 Certificate in Laboratory Technical Skills GQA Qualifications Limited · Level 3 · covers 1 of 10 standards
IAO Level 5 Diploma in Leadership and Management Innovate Awarding · Level 5 · covers 1 of 10 standards
SFEDI Awards Level 5 Diploma in Manufacturing and Production Management (IoSCM) SFEDI Enterprises Ltd. T/A SFEDI Awards · Level 5 · covers 1 of 10 standards

Matched from the standards this job is measured against: a suggestion, not an official ruling.

The units you would start with

Understand how to comply with the relevant Regulations, Industry Standards and Management Requirements for Process Safety GQA Level 5 Diploma in the Practice of Process Safety Management
Comply with External and Internal Obligations within a Bulk Storage Operations Environment GQA PAA\VQ-SET Level 3 Diploma for a Bulk Storage Operator (Technician)
Good Manufacturing Practice GQA PAA\VQ-SET Level 3 Certificate in Laboratory Technical Skills
Principles of Safe Manufacture of Quality Medicines in the Pharmaceutical Environment Open Awards Level 3 Technical Occupational Entry in the Principles and Practice for Pharmacy Technicians (Diploma)
Managing quality and quality systems IAO Level 5 Diploma in Leadership and Management
Managing Quality SFEDI Awards Level 5 Diploma in Manufacturing and Production Management (IoSCM)

The future skills this job leans on

AI Fluency working with AI as a thinking partner
Data Fluency turning numbers into a decision
AI Governance Fluency using AI responsibly
Automation Fluency building AI into how work runs
Foresight Fluency seeing round the corner
Your Plan Illustration

Built for Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer

6 units that map to this job, from the qualifications that cover it.

  1. Understand how to comply with the relevant Regulations, Industry Standards and Management Requirements for Process Safety GQA Qualifications Limited · covers 1 of 10 standards Level 5
  2. Comply with External and Internal Obligations within a Bulk Storage Operations Environment GQA Qualifications Limited · covers 1 of 10 standards Level 3
  3. Good Manufacturing Practice GQA Qualifications Limited · covers 1 of 10 standards Level 3
  4. Principles of Safe Manufacture of Quality Medicines in the Pharmaceutical Environment Open Awards · covers 1 of 10 standards Level 3
  5. Managing quality and quality systems Innovate Awarding · covers 1 of 10 standards Level 5
  6. Managing Quality SFEDI Enterprises Ltd. T/A SFEDI Awards · covers 1 of 10 standards Level 5
These are the real units behind this job, in the order they rank for it. Nothing here is marked done, because this plan has not been started by anyone yet. Yours would fill in as you go.

2AI and this work

Will AI change your work as a Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer?

Nobody can say exactly how. Here is what this job is being asked for next, and where to start.

The new skills this role is being asked for

  • Advanced Data Storytelling for Compliance
  • Ethical AI & Automation Governance
Why each one is rising

The future skills this job leans on

We'll only ever tell you what we can actually back up. No hype, no scare tactics.

What happens when you start

Next, a free account. We build your Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer plan as you set up, starting with the free Data Fluency module. No card.

Your first Future Fluency module is free. After that, your AI tutor is £70 a month.

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Keep this read. One email with what AI is changing in this job, the new skills it asks for and where to start free. Nothing else follows unless you confirm your address.

3What this role really is

A Lead ISO System Auditor checks how quality, environmental and safety systems work together, and where they can improve.

4What you'd actually use

The tools this job runs on, and how well you'd need to know each one.

QMS/EHS Software (e.g., Intelex, ETQ Reliance, Qualio, MasterControl) Advanced

Configuring workflows, managing user permissions, building custom reports and dashboards for system performance, and training new users. You'll be the system administrator for our core QMS/EHS platform.

Document Control Systems (e.g., SharePoint, Confluence, Veeva Vault QualityDocs) Advanced

Designing the document lifecycle workflow, establishing the document hierarchy and numbering system, and managing complex change control processes. You'll ensure our controlled documents are always up-to-date and easily accessible.

Audit Management Software (e.g., AuditBoard, TeamMate, HighBond) Advanced

Managing the end-to-end internal and external audit lifecycle, from scheduling and planning to reporting and CAPA tracking. You'll also analyse cross-audit trends to identify systemic issues.

Data Visualization (e.g., Power BI, Tableau) Advanced

Connecting to QMS/EHS data sources to build and maintain departmental and executive dashboards. You'll create compelling visualisations that clearly communicate performance against KPIs and highlight areas for improvement.

Collaboration Suites (e.g., MS Teams, Slack) Advanced

Setting up dedicated channels and workflows for managing NCs, audit logistics, and improvement projects. You'll use integrations (e.g., Power Automate) to create alerts for overdue actions and streamline communication.

GRC Platform (e.g., ServiceNow GRC, Archer) Intermediate

Understanding how our management system's controls and risks map into the broader enterprise GRC framework. You'll contribute to ensuring alignment with enterprise risk appetite and control frameworks.

5What you get to decide, and how that grows

Power in a job isn't your title. It's what you're allowed to decide. Here's how it grows as you move up.

The choiceComing in Where you are nowThe step above
System Design & Architecture Changes No authority; executes changes as instructed. Proposes minor changes to processes, reviewed by senior staff. Designs and implements significant system improvements within existing framework, consults with manager on major architectural shifts.
External Audit Management Prepares documentation for review; observes audits. Supports audit activities; presents evidence for specific areas. Leads specific audit sections; manages follow-up actions for findings.
Internal Audit Programme Conducts assigned audits with supervision. Independently conducts routine internal audits; drafts reports. Leads internal audit teams; reviews junior auditor reports; manages a specific element of the audit programme.
Budget & Resource Allocation No budget authority. Requests resources for specific tasks. Manages small project budgets (up to £5K) for training or minor system tools.

6How you'll be judged

The scoreboard, and what is not on it. The hard targets, how often each is actually looked at, and the quiet signals that never reach a dashboard.

External Audit Performance
Number of major and minor non-conformances (NCs) raised by the Certification Body (CB) during surveillance and recertification audits.
Target · Zero major NCs, maximum of 3 minor NCs per audit cycle.

In the last surveillance audit, we had 1 minor NC related to document control. Your target is to keep this below 3, and ideally at zero.

Internal Audit Programme Completion
Percentage of planned internal audits completed on schedule, ensuring all key processes are covered.
Target · 95%+ completion rate for the annual internal audit schedule.

If we planned 20 internal audits this year, you're aiming to complete at least 19 of them by year-end, making sure any delays are justified and rescheduled promptly.

Effectiveness of Corrective Actions (CAPAs)
Reduction in the recurrence of non-conformances related to previously closed CAPAs, indicating effective root cause analysis and implementation.
Target · 25% reduction in recurring NCs year-on-year.

If we had 10 recurring NCs in 2023, you'd be looking to bring that down to 7 or fewer in 2024 by ensuring CAPAs truly fix the underlying issues.

System Improvement Project Delivery
On-time and on-budget delivery of key system improvement projects (e.g., QMS software upgrade, IMS integration).
Target · 80%+ of projects delivered within ±10% of planned timeline and budget.

You're leading the upgrade of our EHS software. The target is to roll it out within a few weeks of the original plan and not blow the budget by more than 10%.

Stakeholder Confidence & Engagement
How much other department heads trust and actively participate in the management system, seeing it as a help, not a hindrance.
  • Department heads proactively seek your input on process changes
  • they volunteer resources for internal audits
  • positive feedback in management review meetings
  • fewer complaints about 'extra paperwork'.
Robustness of Management System Design
The elegance and efficiency of the integrated management system architecture, ensuring it's lean, effective, and truly adds value.
  • External auditors comment positively on system design
  • new employees find the system easy to navigate and understand
  • reduced 'workarounds' by operational staff
  • system changes are implemented smoothly without breaking other processes.
Mentorship & Team Development
Your ability to grow and develop the internal audit team, turning them into confident, capable auditors.
  • Junior auditors you've mentored successfully lead their own audits
  • positive feedback from mentees
  • demonstrable improvement in the quality of internal audit reports submitted by your team
  • increased engagement from internal auditors.
Proactive Risk Identification
How well you identify potential compliance or system risks before they become actual problems, moving us from reactive to proactive.
  • You present new risks to the management review team before they're identified externally
  • early warning of emerging regulatory changes
  • implementation of preventative actions that avert potential NCs
  • contributions to the overall risk register.

7Would you like it

Both sides. What people enjoy, and what grinds them down.

What people enjoy
Building Robust Systems

You get a real kick out of designing a new process flow that actually works, or seeing a complex system integration finally click into place. The idea of a well-oiled, efficient compliance machine genuinely excites you.

Spending hours mapping out a new change control process in Visio, then seeing it implemented and actually making things smoother for the engineering team.

Driving Continuous Improvement

You're not content with 'good enough'. You're always looking for ways to make things better, safer, or more efficient, whether it's tweaking an audit programme or streamlining a CAPA process.

Analysing recurring NCs to identify a systemic training gap, then proposing and implementing a solution that demonstrably reduces errors.

Protecting the Organisation

You feel a strong sense of responsibility for ensuring the company avoids regulatory fines, reputational damage, or major incidents. You see your role as a guardian of our standards and integrity.

Successfully navigating a tough external audit, knowing that your preparation and system design prevented a major non-conformance that could have impacted our business.

What frustrates people
  • The 'ISO for the certificate' mentality where the system is seen as a burden, not a benefit.
  • Chasing overdue CAPAs and audit actions from busy department heads.
  • Dealing with siloed data or incomplete records when trying to conduct an investigation.
  • The perception that compliance is a cost centre, not a value driver.
  • Having to explain the same basic ISO concept multiple times to different people.
What this role does not give you
  • A quiet, predictable 9-to-5 where every day is the same.
  • Direct authority over large teams or significant operational budgets (beyond your project budgets).
  • A role where you're constantly building new, 'sexy' products (you're building robust systems, which is a different kind of sexy).
  • A job where you never have to deal with difficult personalities or push back against senior management.

8Who you work with

This role directly impacts our ability to win and retain business (many clients demand ISO certification), our operational efficiency (well-designed systems reduce waste), and our overall risk profile (fewer incidents, better environmental performance). Your work ensures we maintain our 'licence to operate' in many markets, protecting our reputation and bottom line. Frankly, you're a big part of why we don't end up in hot water with regulators or customers.

Inside the business
  • ISO System Manager (your direct boss, for strategic alignment)
  • Department Heads (Engineering, Operations, Sales, for system integration and buy-in)
  • Internal Audit Teams (you'll be leading and coordinating them)
  • Senior Leadership (for reporting on system performance and risks)
Outside the business
  • Certification Bodies (e.g., BSI, SGS – you'll be their main contact)
  • External Auditors (the folks who come in to check our work)
  • Key Suppliers/Partners (for ensuring their compliance aligns with ours)
  • Regulatory Bodies (occasionally, for specific compliance questions)

9What you need before you start

Not a wish list. The things you would be expected to already have.

  • Proven track record of successfully managing ISO 9001, 14001, and/or 45001 systems in a complex organisational setting for at least 5 years.
  • Demonstrable experience leading internal audit teams and managing external certification audits.
  • Strong experience in facilitating Root Cause Analysis (RCA) and managing Corrective and Preventive Actions (CAPAs) through to verified effectiveness.
  • A solid understanding of risk management principles and their application within a management system.
  • Experience in designing and implementing significant system improvements or integrations.
  • Excellent written and verbal communication skills, with a knack for influencing without direct authority.

10What to practise next

Where the job is going, and what to do about it starting this week.

Integrated GRC Platform Management

Organisations are increasingly moving towards integrated Governance, Risk, and Compliance (GRC) platforms. Your ISO systems won't live in isolation; they'll need to feed into and draw from a broader GRC framework, providing a holistic view of risk and compliance across the enterprise.

Control Mapping & Harmonisation · Risk Register Integration · GRC Workflow Automation · Reporting & Analytics within GRC

  • This month: Familiarise yourself with our company's current GRC strategy and any platforms in use (e.g., ServiceNow GRC, Archer).
  • Next month: Identify 2-3 key ISO controls and map them to existing enterprise controls or policies.
  • Month 3: Work with IT or Risk Management to understand how our QMS/EHS data could potentially integrate with the GRC platform.
  • Month 4: Seek out training or documentation on the GRC platform's capabilities, specifically focusing on compliance and risk modules.

Quick win: Review how our current ISO risk register could be streamlined or better integrated with any existing enterprise risk management tools.

Advanced QMS/EHS Software Configuration & Optimisation

Simply using the out-of-the-box features of our QMS/EHS software won't cut it. You'll need to be able to deeply configure, customise, and optimise the platform to perfectly match our evolving business processes and compliance needs, squeezing every bit of value out of it.

Workflow Automation & Scripting · API Integration for Data Exchange · Advanced Reporting & Analytics Customisation · User Experience (UX) Optimisation

  • This month: Deep-dive into the advanced configuration options of our current QMS/EHS software. Look for online tutorials or vendor documentation.
  • Next month: Identify one manual, repetitive task within the QMS/EHS system and explore how to automate it using built-in workflow tools.
  • Month 3: Propose a custom report or dashboard that provides a new, valuable insight into our system performance.
  • Month 4: Attend a vendor-specific advanced administrator training course if available.

Quick win: Identify one pain point in our current QMS/EHS software (e.g., a clunky approval process) and research how it could be streamlined using existing configuration options.

11Staying current once you are in

What people here do to keep up
  • Regularly attend industry conferences and webinars on ISO standards, compliance trends, and quality management best practices.
  • Participate in professional networks or forums for ISO practitioners to share knowledge and learn from peers.
  • Undertake continuous professional development (CPD) to maintain your Lead Auditor certifications and expand your knowledge into new standards or regulations.
  • Mentor junior colleagues or participate in cross-functional improvement projects to broaden your influence and experience.

12The rising capability

The rising capability

Zavmo analysis

What's rising in its place

This is where the work is heading, and the higher pay with it. Get fluent here and the shift stops being a threat and starts being your edge.

Advanced Data Storytelling for Compliance

Simply presenting raw audit findings or NC numbers isn't enough anymore. Senior leadership and the board want to understand the 'so what' – how compliance impacts business risk, operational efficiency, and even revenue. This means moving beyond basic dashboards to compelling narratives.

  • Narrative Structure for Data
  • Visualisation Best Practices
  • Contextualising Metrics
  • Audience-Specific Communication

Ethical AI & Automation Governance

As we use more AI tools for document review, trend analysis, and even report drafting, we need to ensure these tools are used ethically, don't introduce bias, and remain compliant with data protection laws. You'll need to understand the risks of AI, not just its benefits.

  • AI Bias Detection & Mitigation
  • Data Privacy in AI
  • AI Auditability & Explainability
  • Human-in-the-Loop Design

13What you’ll use

What you’ll use

Skills this role draws on

Technical

  • ISO Standards Interpretation & Implementation (9001, 14001, 45001)
  • Process Auditing (Internal & External)
  • Root Cause Analysis (RCA) & Corrective Action (CAPA) Management
  • Risk Management Frameworks (ISO 31000, FMEA)
  • Integrated Management System (IMS) Architecture
  • Supplier & Contractor Compliance Management

14The pathway

The pathway

How you actually get there, here

How you become one varies far more by country than what one does. This is the UK route. Most people take one of these ways in; the right one depends on where you're starting from.

  1. 1

    Senior ISO System Specialist (L3)

    3-5 years as an L3

    Skills to master

    • Leading specific internal audit teams, facilitating complex RCA, managing a complete system element (e.g., document control, training programme), and mentoring junior staff. You'll need to show you can own a significant part of the system.

    You're ready to move on when

    • Consistently delivering high-quality internal audit reports and effective CAPAs.
    • Successfully leading improvement initiatives for specific system elements.
    • Demonstrated ability to influence cross-functional colleagues and build consensus.
    • Positive feedback from mentees and senior colleagues on your leadership potential.
  2. 2

    Quality Engineer / EHS Specialist with Lead Auditor Experience

    5-8 years in a technical role + 3-5 years focused on systems

    Skills to master

    • Translating technical knowledge into system requirements, understanding the 'why' behind compliance, and developing strong auditing and RCA skills. You'll need to prove you can think systematically, not just technically.

    You're ready to move on when

    • Successfully led ISO implementation or certification projects in previous roles.
    • Strong grasp of ISO standards and their practical application in an operational context.
    • Demonstrated ability to conduct effective internal audits and manage non-conformances.
    • A clear passion for system design and continuous improvement.
  3. 3

    External Consultant (ISO Implementation/Auditing)

    3-6 years as a consultant

    Skills to master

    • Adapting to different organisational cultures, quickly understanding new processes, and effectively communicating with diverse stakeholders. You'll need to show you can integrate into an in-house team and drive sustained change.

    You're ready to move on when

    • Managed multiple ISO implementation or certification projects for clients.
    • Strong client relationship management and problem-solving skills.
    • Ability to translate external best practices into internal, actionable strategies.
    • A desire to move from project-based work to long-term system ownership.

15Where this role leads

The long view: This work can lead to a Director of Quality and Compliance role, or into a Head of Operational Excellence position running wider improvement work.

The ten Future Fluencies

Zavmo analysis

The credential is what you can do today. These are what keep you valuable.

A qualification proves you can do the job as it's defined today. These ten are what decide whether you're still the obvious person for it in five years. They're the capabilities employers are now writing into senior roles faster than people are learning them. Zavmo weaves them through whatever you study, so you come out with both: the credential and the fluency.

The highlighted ones are the Fluencies your role leans on hardest, from how Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer is actually changing.

Where it leads

Roles this leads to

How you would learn this

One to one, on the work you already do

A tutor sets the task against your own job and marks the reasoning, at your pace. There is no cohort to fall behind.

A lesson from Understand how to comply with the relevant Regulations, Industry Standards and Management Requirements for Process Safety, worked against Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer.

Understand how to comply with the relevant Regulations, Industry Standards and Management Requirements for Process Safety Level 5

Applied to your work in Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer

The objective of this unit is to provide learners with a comprehensive understanding of the regulations, industry standards, and management requirements for process safety. Learners will understand the role of the Process Safety Leadership Group, relevant frameworks, legal duties, and the role of the Competent Authority.

How the thinking builds
  1. 1 Remember
  2. 2 Understand
  3. 3 Apply
  4. 4 Analyse
  5. 5 Evaluate
  6. 6 Create
An illustration of a Zavmo lesson, built from this role’s own route. The unit, its objective and every criterion above are the awarding body’s own words, not an example.

It is £70 a month, billed monthly. Your free first module is Future Fluency, and you can cancel any time.

See Your Progress Grow Illustration
Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer
  • ISO Standards Interpretation & Implementation (9001, 14001, 45001)
  • Process Auditing (Internal & External)
  • Root Cause Analysis (RCA) & Corrective Action (CAPA) Management
  • Risk Management Frameworks (ISO 31000, FMEA)
  • Integrated Management System (IMS) Architecture
  • Supplier & Contractor Compliance Management
This is your Mind Palace on learn.zavmo.ai. Every skill above comes from this role's own record, not an example borrowed from another job. A node lights up when you evidence it, and what you build stays yours between jobs. That is the part a course cannot do.

16The detail, folded away

Everything else the record holds

The career branches in full, how AI is already showing up in the day-to-day, and the questions people ask about this job. Here when you want them, out of the way while you decide.

Where it leads next, rung by rung

Where it leads

The career path, and where it branches

Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer is a start, not a ceiling. Each step below asks for new skills and hands back more autonomy.

  1. ISO System Manager (L5)

    3-5 years in the Lead role

    This is a significant step up, moving from architecting and leading specific programmes to owning the entire management system function, including budget, strategy, and team leadership.

    • Organisational Design for Compliance Structuring the compliance function to be most effective and integrated.
    • Advanced Vendor Management Managing strategic relationships with key software vendors and external consultants.
    • Enterprise Risk Integration Ensuring the management system aligns seamlessly with the broader enterprise risk management framework.
Working with AI on the job

Working with AI

Where AI is starting to help

Let's be real, managing ISO systems can be a mountain of paperwork and repetitive tasks. But what if you could offload a significant chunk of that to AI? We're not talking about replacing you; we're talking about giving you a superpower. Imagine reclaiming hours every week to focus on strategic improvements, not just chasing documents.

For a Lead ISO System Auditor, AI isn't just a gimmick; it's a game-changer. You're constantly sifting through documents, analysing trends, and drafting reports. AI can take the grunt work out of these tasks, freeing you up to apply your expertise where it truly matters: designing robust systems, conducting in-depth investigations, and influencing change across the organisation. Think of it as having an incredibly efficient, tireless assistant.

Automated Document Review & Compliance Check

AI can scan new or revised controlled documents (procedures, work instructions) for consistency, adherence to templates, and cross-referencing against ISO standard clauses. It'll flag inconsistencies, outdated references, or potential compliance gaps before they even reach your desk, drastically cutting down manual proofreading and review cycles. Imagine catching a typo in a critical procedure before the external auditor does!

Advanced NC Trend & Root Cause Analysis

Forget manually sifting through hundreds of non-conformance reports. AI can analyse historical NC data, incident reports, and audit findings to identify subtle patterns, systemic weaknesses, and probable root causes that a human might miss. This helps you focus your Root Cause Analysis efforts on the highest-impact areas, leading to more effective CAPAs and a real reduction in recurring issues.

ISO Standards Update Summariser & Gap Analysis

When a new version of ISO 9001 or 14001 drops, it's a huge task to understand the changes. AI can ingest the new standard, compare it against the previous version, and generate a concise summary of key changes, additions, and deletions. It can even create a preliminary gap analysis checklist, giving you a massive head start on updating our systems and saving days of manual review.

Audit Report & CAPA Drafting Assistant

AI can generate a first draft of an internal audit report based on your checklist findings, interview notes, and objective evidence. It can also help draft polite, professional follow-up emails for overdue CAPAs, ensuring consistency and saving significant writing time. You'll still review and refine, of course, but the heavy lifting of getting words on paper is done for you.

Common questions

Common questions

How do you become a Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer?

Common routes in include Senior ISO System Specialist (3-5 years as an L3), Quality Engineer / EHS Specialist with Lead Auditor Experience (5-8 years in a technical role + 3-5 years focused on systems) and External Consultant (ISO Implementation/Auditing) (3-6 years as a consultant). Times vary with prior experience.

Where can a Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer progress to?

This role can lead on to ISO System Manager (3-5 years in the Lead role), depending on the skills you build.

What new skills matter most for a Lead ISO System Auditor / Principal Systems Engineer?

Increasingly, Advanced Data Storytelling for Compliance and Ethical AI & Automation Governance. These are the skills our record of this role lists as growing.

Free tools

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17Where to go from here

Other roles at Level 5

Same depth of qualification, different job. Useful if the work appeals but this particular role does not.

 More jobs in compliance, quality and safety

Stay in the field you know and move sideways rather than up.
If you leave this industry

Skills in ISO systems, auditing, risk management and process improvement transfer across industries that need certification, such as aerospace, automotive, medical devices, pharmaceuticals, food and beverage, and IT services. The principles stay the same, though the standards may differ.

This role profile is © 2026 Growth Engineering Technologies Ltd. Built from UK occupational standards and regulated qualification data, and written for Zavmo.

You're not behind. You're right on time. The shift is only just beginning. Your role won't look the same in two years. Be the one who leads the change, not the one it happens to. Start my free Data Fluency module What happens next: a free account, then we build your plan as you set up. No card. Build your plan, see your roadmap and meet the twelve tutors matched to you. All free. When you're ready to start learning, it's £70 a month, billed monthly. Cancel any time and billing stops.